Is there realy any incentive to expand in this game?

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Is there realy any incentive to expand in this game?

Postby samoja » Wed Jan 01, 2014 1:29 pm

I was pointed to this game by a user in another forum but frankly CP system is a major turn off for me, while i often advocate only cap in RTs games to be what you can afford i can see how balance needs to be put in place by creating some kind of limitation so that vets will not go Von neuman on new players, however if your maximum number of cps is always the same no matter what you do, and bigger and better ships are more CP expensive then i see no incentive to go out and fight or expand for that matter in the first place, i actually see game penalize such behavior. If you colonize another planet you have effectively halved your strength because you now have to defend two planets with the same base power you had defending your main planet, and with impenetrable planetary shield protecting your primary planet why waste time and effort on colonizing other planets at all? At this point every game with that premise i ever played turns into a COD in space, where you churn out units as fast as you can and throw them at the enemy to free up slots for new units you can churn out and your opponent does exactly the same resulting in a stalemate that is very hard and frustrating to break, and there is no way to actually progress the game. What i would suggest is a compromise, lets say number of CPs are dependent on the number of planets you have and their quality(with your home planet being 100%), so your home planet can for example produce 10 ships, then you go out and colonize another planet that gives you enough CPs to produce 2 more, then you start working on it and when you get it to resemble conditions on your home planet it will give you enough CPs to produce 10 ships like your home planet. So what would prevent players from just expanding all out and claiming large portions of the galaxy just to gain more CPs? Simple, make colonizing a new planet a big deal, in most today's 4x games colonizing a planet is like a thing you do before breakfast, i do not think it is supposed to be that way. Whenever you are colonizing a planet there would be challenges, no planet in the universe is exactly alike and problems can crop up from radiation, to toxic chemicals in the soil, to frequent asteroid rains. it would take a lot of research and problem solving to make that planet actually liveable, and you can also make it so your initial population has a very slow rate of expansion, so to make new colony fully populated you would either need to find a way to transport(not to mention incentive to go) many people from your core planet or you would have to develop complex facilities to clone and raise children artificially(which would be a daunting task). So a player with 10 planets could set aside 10 ships without making himself too vulnerable in the process but a player with 2 would have to halve his defenses to do so, while a player with 1 gets to have full 10 ships from the start. This would also get people to try and retake opponents planets as it would be a lot easier to take a fully terraformed or half terraformed planet then start one from scratch.
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Re: Is there realy any incentive to expand in this game?

Postby Sypheria » Wed Jan 01, 2014 1:47 pm

You forget that more CP doesn't actually make a unit better. Low CP units can be just as or more effective than the max PC you could possibly get on a unit.

Colonizing a planet in NA will take several days to take over and months before its fully developed.

Also we will have increasing CP values; we are currently working on a way to allow that without allowing people to steamroll smaller fleets. We want more smaller battles rather than massive ones with all the units you can muster.
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Re: Is there realy any incentive to expand in this game?

Postby samoja » Wed Jan 01, 2014 2:17 pm

Sypheria wrote:You forget that more CP doesn't actually make a unit better. Low CP units can be just as or more effective than the max PC you could possibly get on a unit.

Colonizing a planet in NA will take several days to take over and months before its fully developed.

Also we will have increasing CP values; we are currently working on a way to allow that without allowing people to steamroll smaller fleets. We want more smaller battles rather than massive ones with all the units you can muster.


How about making it hard and expensive to move fleets around, if you need a lot of time and fuel to move your fleet from Alpha centauri to Wolf 359 then you cant amass all your fleet at Wolf and expect them to move another place in your empire when attack starts, you need to spread out your forces to defend ally or assets and if you want to attack your opponent with a massive fleet you will leave a lot of your planets vulnerable as that fleet will need a long time to return and it may run into problems if invasion is unsuccessful and they can't refuel at newly conquered territory, just like in real life an invasion is slow and costly endeavor, not to mention risky.
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Re: Is there realy any incentive to expand in this game?

Postby Sypheria » Wed Jan 01, 2014 3:22 pm

We will not have fuel for movement. We want there to be constant battles; we just don't want people with 1 million points of CP obliterating players with 50k CP for the lulz.
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Re: Is there realy any incentive to expand in this game?

Postby megamike420 » Wed Jan 01, 2014 3:34 pm

yea i think the idea of letting a newer player have a chance to get started is a good idea. and yes limiting the experienced players will have a good effect on new people joining the game.
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Re: Is there realy any incentive to expand in this game?

Postby PerfectDeath » Wed Jan 01, 2014 3:39 pm

Using some systems and components will consume generic supplies so a fleet will eventually run out of supplies and be unable to fire at enemies or use abilities. It can still move, having a ship get stuck in space without fuel while it still takes up your CP would be silly on our part. =P
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Re: Is there realy any incentive to expand in this game?

Postby UnicomNexus » Wed Jan 01, 2014 3:57 pm

Hmmmn... That sounds fun. Lost ships in space and you have no clue what's wrong with the cp system hehe :3
I guess I should start ftl ships randomly and lose some of them wondering... where's my cp? xD
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Re: Is there realy any incentive to expand in this game?

Postby elementalest » Thu Jan 02, 2014 4:41 am

I generally agree with the OP. Only problem i see is with multi accounts. So the main account colonises a planet near a multi accounts home planet. The multi can help protect the new planet with its own fleet (it only has one planet to defend). Once colonisation is complete the multi can move their home planet to another location and let the main account take the old multi home planet. This means the main account can basically double the rate at which they can colonise and build planets without spreading their fleet too thin. There will also be no retaliation.

I don't know how this could be solved without gimping other gameplay mechanics though.
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Re: Is there realy any incentive to expand in this game?

Postby samoja » Thu Jan 02, 2014 6:23 am

Sypheria wrote:We will not have fuel for movement. We want there to be constant battles; we just don't want people with 1 million points of CP obliterating players with 50k CP for the lulz.


I can understand that, however the current system is in my opinion too far in the other direction, in essence you get weaker if you expand because no matter how strong your individual ships are you will always have more firepower if you keep them at your home world rather than colonizing another world, so a new player can in essence destroy a vet because he can afford to send more ships without stretching himself too thin, and paradoxically the more world veteran player loses the stronger he becomes. I will take Battlestations Pacific as example, in skirmish mode there is a form of play where you control islands to gain victory points, and you have fixed number of CPs to use for your army(around 3000) every unit uses a certain amount of CPs and as it is killed CPs are returned instantly in the player's bank. While concept may work on paper in practice there is no downside to actually losing your units, in fact the faster you expand your units the faster you can adopt to the situation on the field which leads to both parties continuously trying to zerg rush each other by continuously spamming and loosing units. There is no need for tactics because it rely does not matter if you killed 5 enemy fighter squadrons with one because whenever he looses them he can just spam out new ones so the best strategy becomes the famed "throw so much meat at the grinder that the gears break".
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Re: Is there realy any incentive to expand in this game?

Postby Sypheria » Thu Jan 02, 2014 7:33 am

Planets take ages to steal form other players or "take from yourself" before they actually become productive. Chances are if you do something like that we'll have already found out and made you a target of NPC and player ire via quests to kill you.

Like I said before, we are currently working on expanding the CP system so it gives a little grow but you can't bring as many units to an actual battle. This will urge players to keep their fleets spread out among their empire.

Even a large player will run out of supplies and component if he spams units at people. So "zerg rushing" isn't feasible.
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