When talking about giving buffs to the underdog

QQ to your hearts content and we'll take a look at its legitimacy.

Re: When talking about giving buffs to the underdog

Postby Sypheria » Tue Jan 28, 2014 10:34 am

All of those potential abuses are already planned for and handled. None of them will be abusable.

If you attempt to abuse it, you will suffer; if you use it naturally, all shall be good.
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Re: When talking about giving buffs to the underdog

Postby Flatlander » Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:56 pm

I will wait till there is more information on it to "argue" on the legitimacy of creating "automatic balancing".

But my personal opinion on ZoCs is it discourages teamwork.
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Re: When talking about giving buffs to the underdog

Postby Sypheria » Tue Jan 28, 2014 1:09 pm

Actually the more people in the fight the tankier everyone becomes, not just the underdog. You want this. Default values will have small battles incredibly dangerous taking massive losses on all sides. Even if you're out numbering someone, everyone takes less damage over the same amount of time. We have also modified the system so no one is debuffed.
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Re: When talking about giving buffs to the underdog

Postby Flatlander » Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:58 pm

Sounds interesting, but I would still need to learn about the specifics before I can be for or against it.

As a rule, I always am against "Protecting the little guy" on games since I personally have never seen it work, and a lot of the times it causes even MORE of a gap between players.

In Short (If you don't like reading), When you create all these "rules" to protect players in certain situations. It creates more and more things a player needs to learn before they are a "good player". Every game has a "META" that is considered the "best way to play", and It is unavoidable.
BUT! would you rather players think about fleet strategy, flanking, positioning, and teamwork. Or have a player that loses a battle due to an in-game technicality.
Every "Protection System" has positive aspects and negative aspects. and EVERY game has "Exploits" or "Know How" of ways to win.

One Example is:
I read that if you have "Friendly Ships" 2v1 against another player it will cause the ships to be nerfed due to a "Friendly Fire Identification".
Well, one way for "pro players" to abuse this is, don't ally up, but in battle select your targets individually, or attack from 2 opposite sides so your ships aren't in range of each other. The Game wouldn't recognize you as allied, so you have no nerf.


Or, using your example:
"The more people in a fight the tankier everyone becomes"
Lets say you need time to engage your FTL Drive and get all your slow-moving ships out of combat because you are losing a battle.
I assume this will take a set amount of time. (Lets say 1 minute).
Well in 1 minute maybe you'd lose 100 ships.
But, if an ally sends in a large group of ultra-fast ships, all of the units get a health buff.
Now in 1 minute maybe you'd lose only 50 ships, and his ultra-fast ships can simply run away from the battle since their only purpose is to abuse the system, they don't even need guns.

This way, a group of 5 players fighting 2, could easily abuse the system to DESTROY the other players.
5 players would always make a portion of their fleet "Ultra Fast Ships" that they never use in battle, and all 5 players will fly into a zone anytime they need to retreat one of their fleets, making them considerably more tanky and allowing them to get away with less casualties.
The 2 players this system is supposed to protect, aren't able to abuse the system as much, because they don't have as many players.


It is completely possible that you've found a way to make a perfect system that is incapable of being abused in any way, and works in a way that players wouldn't need deep knowledge on the system so that they don't "break a rule" and lose a battle due to a "Protection system", but I have my doubts.
I will be buying the game (and so will most of my gaming group of around 20-30 players) as long as the game turns out as expected. I am not "against" the developers or anything, I am simply against breaking gameplay for the hope that it will protect noobs or avoid "power abuse".
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Re: When talking about giving buffs to the underdog

Postby Sypheria » Tue Jan 28, 2014 4:24 pm

Everyone seems to misunderstand that a out numbered person still won't win. The out numbering side will just take more damage since there's more things to hit. Shots that would normally miss could go right past your ships and hit another ship.

FTL can't be used in ZoCs pretty much 99% of the time. If you are hit with anything that negatively alters your ship in anyway, hp, debuffs, knockbacks, your FTL is disabled and goes on a long cooldown.
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Re: When talking about giving buffs to the underdog

Postby Flatlander » Tue Jan 28, 2014 4:30 pm

Sorry Sypheria :P.

"Everyone" (Including me I guess) just make assumptions based upon what they hear.
Since there are no "facts" people just have their imagination to tell them how it will be. So they imagine either the best or worst possible outcome and base their opinion off of that.

I'm a "Glass is half-empty" type of person, so I always think about how people will abuse things (or how I can abuse them).
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Re: When talking about giving buffs to the underdog

Postby Sypheria » Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:01 pm

If you play naturally your fine. If you attempt to actively abuse it you'll suffer.
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Re: When talking about giving buffs to the underdog

Postby Anticitizen » Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:11 am

Sypheria, when you say that players who abuse the system will suffer, I assume you mean some kind of dev intervention or maybe even some kind of automated system for tracking abusive shenanigans. Could we get more details on that or is it still too early in development?
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Re: When talking about giving buffs to the underdog

Postby Sypheria » Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:59 am

Just don't go out of your way to abuse it, and it won't matter.
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Re: When talking about giving buffs to the underdog

Postby Huginn » Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:23 pm

Sypheria wrote:Just don't go out of your way to abuse it, and it won't matter.


"dont abuse what cant be abused"
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