Concerning the three main weapon types

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Re: Concerning the three main weapon types

Postby Pandora » Fri Feb 14, 2014 2:07 pm

Koinzell wrote:well, what point in time is the game taking place in? I doubt that we will still use slugs in 900 years, or even 100

Yeah, I'm pretty sure we will. Look at it simply: A really fast moving massive object is an amazing way to facilitate energy transfer.
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Re: Concerning the three main weapon types

Postby Koinzell » Fri Feb 14, 2014 3:06 pm

Pandora wrote:Yeah, I'm pretty sure we will. Look at it simply: A really fast moving massive object is an amazing way to facilitate energy transfer.


a beam of pure energy is still better at that^^ though it's not kinetic ernergy
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Re: Concerning the three main weapon types

Postby Azsendi » Fri Feb 14, 2014 3:15 pm

But plasma, how much energy will we lose from our ships to make it. Plasma requires a lot of energy and control to control it and beams suck a lot of power to make damage. If you want to use it, you can risk a system overload. :)
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Re: Concerning the three main weapon types

Postby Pandora » Fri Feb 14, 2014 3:45 pm

Koinzell wrote:a beam of pure energy is still better at that^^ though it's not kinetic ernergy

Not really. A plasma burst will disperse, and is much easier to prevent damage from. Modern technology can do that already! (Hint: Plasma is magnetic. It's all about magnets!) What's more the cost to create is far higher. Creating, maintaining, shaping and preserving in flight will all require a studiousness energy budget. I'm not going to go into the physics (it's more complex then I like to do off the cuff!) but basically, kinetic energy transfer is fairly straightforward. A plasma blast has a huge number of factors that limit it's effectiveness. What's more: Plasma is a sublight weapon as well. It will be short range, as well as physical slug weapons. It might be a high C fractional weapon, but even then that's sublight. Thus it's range limitations are the same as guns.
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Re: Concerning the three main weapon types

Postby Koinzell » Fri Feb 14, 2014 4:06 pm

Pandora wrote:Not really. A plasma burst will disperse, and is much easier to prevent damage from. Modern technology can do that already! (Hint: Plasma is magnetic. It's all about magnets!) What's more the cost to create is far higher. Creating, maintaining, shaping and preserving in flight will all require a studiousness energy budget. I'm not going to go into the physics (it's more complex then I like to do off the cuff!) but basically, kinetic energy transfer is fairly straightforward. A plasma blast has a huge number of factors that limit it's effectiveness. What's more: Plasma is a sublight weapon as well. It will be short range, as well as physical slug weapons. It might be a high C fractional weapon, but even then that's sublight. Thus it's range limitations are the same as guns.

and once again, we can't say anything actually, since we have such little background info like
how much tech could they still use?
how long did they have time to *evolve*?
did they have a dark middle age?
etc etc
and well, you can make an effective plasma weapon, *coat* it around a magnet, and the energy aint that hard to get by, get a dark matter reactor or something along the lines, should be enough energy to blow up a planet

oh and regarding the physics point, I am talking about the futute, sci fi etc, all stuff I read in some sci fi romans^^ I am pretty knowledgable about our physics, since I always found them interesting, for my age (18), we don't know what the future brings, and if our basic physical rules are actually correct, but if we go from out current knowledge, you are right, yes

beam weapons are still the best :P
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Re: Concerning the three main weapon types

Postby Pandora » Fri Feb 14, 2014 4:30 pm

Koinzell wrote:and once again, we can't say anything actually, since we have such little background info like
how much tech could they still use?
how long did they have time to *evolve*?
did they have a dark middle age?
etc etc
and well, you can make an effective plasma weapon, *coat* it around a magnet, and the energy aint that hard to get by, get a dark matter reactor or something along the lines, should be enough energy to blow up a planet

oh and regarding the physics point, I am talking about the futute, sci fi etc, all stuff I read in some sci fi romans^^ I am pretty knowledgable about our physics, since I always found them interesting, for my age (18), we don't know what the future brings, and if our basic physical rules are actually correct, but if we go from out current knowledge, you are right, yes

beam weapons are still the best :P

physics is physics. ESPECIALLY gas mechanics and standard mechanics. Sure a few hundred thousand years will greatly improve our understanding and ability to manipulate: however, basic physical laws will still apply. If we can't assume that then there is literally no point in discussing things, period. As we wouldn't understand or even know the basis of things!

On your next point: If you wrap a plasma field around an exceptionally strong magnet, you're launching a physical weapon with a plasma shell. Why not use a self-forging projectile, creating a projectile of molten metal (aka, modern anti-tank weapons.) Seriously: Plasma makes sense in a limited range, perhaps UNDER that of physical slugs for a simple reason: it is exceptionally energy intensive to sustain. Creating a sustained plasma field takes gigawatts if not terawatts, and that's for tiny fields. If you wanted a weaponized plasma you would need something far beyond what is logical, much less realistic. that being said it IS the future. Even so, some things really and truly don't change: energy weapons take more energy then a physical weapon. Basic mechanics work. Things like that.
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Re: Concerning the three main weapon types

Postby Koinzell » Fri Feb 14, 2014 5:08 pm

Pandora wrote:physics is physics. ESPECIALLY gas mechanics and standard mechanics. Sure a few hundred thousand years will greatly improve our understanding and ability to manipulate: however, basic physical laws will still apply. If we can't assume that then there is literally no point in discussing things, period. As we wouldn't understand or even know the basis of things!

On your next point: If you wrap a plasma field around an exceptionally strong magnet, you're launching a physical weapon with a plasma shell. Why not use a self-forging projectile, creating a projectile of molten metal (aka, modern anti-tank weapons.) Seriously: Plasma makes sense in a limited range, perhaps UNDER that of physical slugs for a simple reason: it is exceptionally energy intensive to sustain. Creating a sustained plasma field takes gigawatts if not terawatts, and that's for tiny fields. If you wanted a weaponized plasma you would need something far beyond what is logical, much less realistic. that being said it IS the future. Even so, some things really and truly don't change: energy weapons take more energy then a physical weapon. Basic mechanics work. Things like that.


yeah, good point there^^ energy weapons take more energy then kinetic weapons, makes sense :P unless you want to fire a planet, that would take quit a bit of energy
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Re: Concerning the three main weapon types

Postby Pandora » Fri Feb 14, 2014 5:25 pm

Koinzell wrote:yeah, good point there^^ energy weapons take more energy then kinetic weapons, makes sense :P unless you want to fire a planet, that would take quit a bit of energy

Actually.....
that's easier with kinetic energy weapons as well. Get a few large (5+ mile) diameter asteroids. push them through the atmosphere of a planet several times at .05-.15 C. The heat transfer of the rocks air breaking will raise the temperature a large amount. if you do it enough, you can create global firestorms as oxygen ignites in the atmosphere. Of course, if you just want to kill the planet's inhabitants, aim the rocks at the ground.
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Re: Concerning the three main weapon types

Postby Koinzell » Fri Feb 14, 2014 6:09 pm

Pandora wrote:Actually.....
that's easier with kinetic energy weapons as well. Get a few large (5+ mile) diameter asteroids. push them through the atmosphere of a planet several times at .05-.15 C. The heat transfer of the rocks air breaking will raise the temperature a large amount. if you do it enough, you can create global firestorms as oxygen ignites in the atmosphere. Of course, if you just want to kill the planet's inhabitants, aim the rocks at the ground.

naaa, our objective is to kill the inhabitants of 2 planets with it!! and some fleet as a boon maybe
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Re: Concerning the three main weapon types

Postby CollinDow » Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:00 pm

For a great treatment of the various weapons systems of space combat, I recommend "The Lost Fleet" series by Jack Campbell. Combat at relativistic speeds kind of rends the brain, which, I'm sure, is why all the videos I've seen Novus AEterno go with the old standby of "stationary ships in space." Dealing with ship's orbits and the closing speeds involved would be a huge burden. If combat were Lost Fleet style, encounters between fleets would be milliseconds long, with vast amounts of damage from projectile and beam weapons, with hours between encounters.
Which I feel is the most realistic manner of space-fighting, but would be extremely difficult to do in a game.
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